Krasnaya Polyana - 'Gaming' the operational map

[Shadrach]

At Krasnaya as Soviet, you are supposed to defend from two sides, since Peiper is attacking from the north to relieve the forces trapped to the south.

However, the operation is made very easy if you capture the edges of the map with your cavalry in the first couple turns, leaving the Germans no way to enter the map from the south... Even if you have no forces in a sector it is still not possible for them to attack there.

I guess it is there to simulate blocking off reinforcements, but it's way too easy to exploit.

End-of game screenshot, basically all the units coming from the S are trapped.



Playing as the Germans I discovered this as well, but the AI didn't exploit it so I was still able to enter the map.

And yes - this is very "gamey" and abusing the system, and a true wargamer wouldn't do such things, right? Right? 

I think it should be changed so that it is still possible to enter the map even if the area is owned by the enemy, and also to attack enemy in areas close to the map edge. What do you guys think?

[Void]

+1

[Flashburn]

#1 question I have..........where ai under your command or not?  I did this as well.   

[Shadrach]

#1 question I have..........where ai under your command or not?  I did this as well.   

Yeah, I command AI units too, I see no point in having the mostly useless AI waste units. Except if the point is to make the game harder, then I guess it's a fair point, but still... Most scenarios in APOS are too small to not be able to command every unit on the field.

I see the southern part is mostly controlled by AI cavalry, as well as the crucial tank units, so I imagine that would cause the scenario to be *much* harder for the Soviets.

[Flashburn]

I just wanted the KV1's....

[andrey12345]

These operations are done with the expectation that AI manages its own troops and AI troops engaged what he did in reality (and this is not attack and eliminate user enemys  ).
12 TC repairing equipment and preparing to advance north to Kharkov, as not to delay the Peiper toward Zmiyev.
6 gds Cav Corps moved to the west, cutting off escape routes for garrison in Kharkov.

Your managed forces is alone battalion of 350 Rifle Division with light support, so they tried to block Peiper and 320 Inf. Not all forces in area

Otherwise, operation turns very easily.

[Lemonade]

#1 question I have..........where ai under your command or not?  I did this as well.   

Yeah, I command AI units too, I see no point in having the mostly useless AI waste units. Except if the point is to make the game harder, then I guess it's a fair point, but still... Most scenarios in APOS are too small to not be able to command every unit on the field.

While my response might be a little bit off-topic, I absolutely agree with this. Allied AI makes odd choices on the operational level. It would be fine if the battles initiated by AI resolved automatically, but you have to fight them yourself if none of your units participate in battle! So if, say, allied AI attacks two platoons of Lend-Lease tanks with a recon unit, you have to stand on your head to clean this mess. Allied AI player control all the way.

These operations are done with the expectation that AI manages its own troops and AI troops engaged what he did in reality (and this is not attack and eliminate user enemys   ). Otherwise, operation turns very easily.

As I said, if AI initiated battles were resolved automatically, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's frustrating to fight uneven tactical battles that you, as a player, wouldn't have even started. You'd avoid them by regrouping troops or whatever. Still, there's always the FLEE button available.

[Shadrach]

As I said, if AI initiated battles were resolved automatically, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's frustrating to fight uneven tactical battles that you, as a player, wouldn't have even started. You'd avoid them by regrouping troops or whatever. Still, there's always the FLEE button available.

Yeah that's exactly why I turned off Allied AI control, and even in defensive scenarios the AI seems to prefer seeking out the enemy on his own, and then engaging on the enemys terms instead of setting up a good defense and waiting.

These operations are done with the expectation that AI manages its own troops and AI troops engaged what he did in reality (and this is not attack and eliminate user enemys  ).

So basically what you're saying is, the (bad) AI is part of the scenario and if turned off makes it too easy? I would think balancing the scenario with all forces being used to the fullest would be the best solution, not making artificial difficulty by having uncontrollable and suicidal AI in the picture. You know us wargamers like to have complete control, and not leave anything up to chance

Anyway, back on track - I still think the inability to enter a map zone controlled by the enemy should be changed so it is possible to enter the map and also attack enemy units entrenched on the entry-edge of the map.

I had almost the same problem playing as Germans, the AI had blocked off most of the S part of the map and I had to send my units around the edge to be able to enter, which seemed illogical as the Soviets were just sitting there at the southern objective waiting to be attacked.

[Flashburn]

Oh I see both sides of this.  Probably the easiest solution would be..................  If the tanks where preparing for movement I would have simply set fatigue and fuel levels low on said units.  If player does take over control of ai they would not be able to do much with those forces other than sit tight, defend their area.     Not vary far off from what they would have been doing anyways.   

[Schuck]

Hey guys,
On the subject of maps,
I personally think reserve units should be "off map" only appearing at the edge when the units become active.
And should they happen to appear where there are enemy units, this should be treated as an "Ambush" situation.
It seems such a shame that a good portion of these beautiful maps are unusable, think how much larger the combat area would be if the edges of the maps were freed up!
As for the 320 inf, if they're on the map they're fair game, all the more for Peiper to get a move on!!