WHY do some of the the DLC's not have telephone troops?

[Flashburn]

Says it all right there.  Got SO use to them I miss them when not there.   

[Dane49]

I guess some of the old APOS DLC campaigns haven't been upgraded to GTOS standards.

[Flashburn]

Well sokolovo the AI controlled zis3's and infantry LOVE to just stupid attack the germans.  I thought they where suppose to defend.  Pissed me off and turned player controls ai BUT that makes your entire force retarded as their experience level drops to nothing. 

LOL I might try and mod solovoko to 1 get the defending Red army AI guys to defend and not go on an insane attack right into a billion tanks and half tracks..  and 2 maybe get the CZ guys some Russian telegraph operators.  LOL  Maybe not LOL.  Might as well just make a campaign based right off of it instead.  Man I just want to GOOF off right now, not make stuff..   

[Dane49]

LOL I might try and mod solovoko to 1 get the defending Red army AI guys to defend and not go on an insane attack right into a billion tanks and half tracks..  and 2 maybe get the CZ guys some Russian telegraph operators.

Some players would appreciate a German campaign for Sokolovo,it would be a good chance to do both.

Sokolovo has been in need of an upgrade for awhile.I always thought the map was excellent but needed improvements since it was too barren in some areas and too dense in others.
Graviteam needs to pull some of the trees out of the dense forrest areas and plant a few along the roads and open fields to give it a more interesting and balanced feel.Those dense forests are a real FPS killer and the open fields are uninteresting for QBs.

[Flashburn]

LOL I might try and mod solovoko to 1 get the defending Red army AI guys to defend and not go on an insane attack right into a billion tanks and half tracks..  and 2 maybe get the CZ guys some Russian telegraph operators.

Some players would appreciate a German campaign for Sokolovo,it would be a good chance to do both.

Would be a cake walk for Germans with current.  I could DO a BASED on that goes semi historical...  Ai is NOT smart enough to place that few AT guns and to actually stand a chance against the force against it.  But keeping German force the same... well add in the telegraph guys...  I will think about it.  Currently jumped into a massive project in RO2.  I have been playing GTOS when NOT working on my bit of that. 

[Dane49]

I don't think the Germans had as many tanks and halftracks in the real battle as they do in that campaign.

[Flashburn]

I don't think the Germans had as many tanks and halftracks in the real battle as they do in that campaign.

Well since the 2 ai controlled zis 3 batterys are toast after turn 3 or 4 due to their suicide charge you get left with 1 cz zis battery and 1 of 45mm.  I have NEVER finished this campaign as I get pissed off or loose interest.  I do not see how the hell you can hold the town south of the river...  The other side with stalling ya.... once the tanks show up.  But never get that far.  OH and all your infantry are insane low skill level. 

[Dane49]

I think I played that campaign around Easter and was able to decimate the German mech forces and keep the tanks at bay till I tried a stupid counter attack near the bridge and lost all my armor and then gave up.

[Flashburn]

I think I played that campaign around Easter and was able to decimate the German mech forces and keep the tanks at bay till I tried a stupid counter attack near the bridge and lost all my armor and then gave up.

LOL.  You gave up the town and went north?  I am giving it another go.  Just letting them have the south of the town and stuffing as much stuff into 3 squares as possible.  I hope the ai trys to do a land grab OTHER places and does not attack in mass.  I got this DLC on release way back.  But UGH only one I never finished at least 1 campaign.  Still have not played the iran side in prophet all the way either...

[Dane49]

LOL.  You gave up the town and went north?

Not exactly,I fortified the areas around the stone buildings and entrenched my AT guns along the river where I had a better LOS and did a night counter attack  with the armor that meted out some death and destruction to the recon and pioneer troops initially till I pushed the attack to far past the bridge in the next battle and ran into the arty guns and flame tanks who destroyed my whole armored force.

By that time my AT guns were already destroyed near the river and the German tanks still left were mopping up what was left of my forces in the town and I didn't think I had a chance with the forces I had left north of the river.
Losing all the armor broke my spirit and I retreated or actually quit!

[Flashburn]

LOL.  You gave up the town and went north?

Not exactly,I fortified the areas around the stone buildings and entrenched my AT guns along the river where I had a better LOS and did a night counter attack  with the armor that meted out some death and destruction to the recon and pioneer troops initially till I pushed the attack to far past the bridge in the next battle and ran into the arty guns and flame tanks who destroyed my whole armored force.

By that time my AT guns were already destroyed near the river and the German tanks still left were mopping up what was left of my forces in the town and I didn't think I had a chance with the forces I had left north of the river.
Losing all the armor broke my spirit and I retreated or actually quit!

never made it to turn 9 for my tanks to show up....

[Flashburn]

Oh gawd....turn 1 went real bad.     My 1 poor infantry squad Vs 6 of whatever od theres.  I had them as a speed bump with an il2 spotter.  Called them in... SO many mg's lighting up the IL2's.  1 run by each and off they went flying off screen.  Made 1 hit on 1 infantry guy.  Then I retreated....no chance as my squad was getting hit with everything. 

[Dane49]

never made it to turn 9 for my tanks to show up....

Awaiting their arrival was the only thing that kept me from throwing in the towel earlier as I watched my infantry and AT guns getting slaughtered and/or cowering in the buildings .My AT guns got in some good licks before they were knocked out and my arty kept the Germans from overrunning my troops in the town,but as soon as my tanks showed up I wanted revenge and some pay back!

I should have left it at that with the initial success of the counter attack and went back on the defense instead of trying to push my luck and win the whole battle that night.

[Dane49]

Another thing about the Sokolovo map I find interesting if I go by the book "last Victory in Russia" by George Nipes.

He states in his book that the line units of the 320th infantry were not in or around Taranovka during Feb. 12-18 but were moving into the area North of the Mzha near Merefa while other units of the division who linked up with Pieper  went into defensive positions around Krasnaya Polyana covering the RR into Kharkov from Chuguyev and  tying in with the other 320th units defending Merefa.

Nipes does place a training and replacement battalion in the Sokolovo area along with some security units(Don't know if the T&R  Battalion was the for the 320th or some other unit).

But while the 320th was taking up positions around Krasnaya Polyana and Merefa  units of the LSSAH were forming up in Merefa to counter attack South to cut off the Soviet units that were trying to cut the last remaining RR line into Kharkov and encircle the city from the South.

So if going by Nipes book it seems that the link up was with the training and replacement battalion near Sokolovo and the unit that would have done this was the LSSAH Pioneer Battalion since it was covering the left flank of the 1st LSSAH regiment while it passed thru Taranovka to attack Bereka.

The Pioneer Battalion wasn't all mech. either  some of the specialist engineers rode in 1/2 tracks but the majority were truck motorized and basically operated on foot.

I've played a few QBs trying to simulate this situation were the Pioneer bat. tries to link up with the T&B battalion and attached security units it was very interesting and fun.

[Flashburn]

I like the polygon for this old DLC...  reminds me of old k43.  BUT damnit I hate how this mission is layed out.  I have the ai controls allys ON.  Which is totally screwing me! I turn it off all the units you take control of drop down to shelled experience just like your CZ infantry!  Quite annoying!  But if the AI would JUST TRY and hold the right and left flanks with their zis3's instead of suicide attacking and dragging some of my units into hopeless fights.... At least I can say flee the battle field after a few shots get fired.  LOL 


I think I MIGHT be able to hold out till the tanks get here.  BUT damned!  I think taking the hit and setting player controls AI is the way to go.  Should just get set to that IMO.  That way no loosing skill to nothing if you select it. 

On the 1st night battle now.  Think I am going to try and let the germans into West solovako.  Once their dump an entire battery of bm13 rockets on them.     Then open up with the zis 3 and everything else. 


And at least 1 more platoon of field engineers!     I like suicide troops with satchel charges...what can I say?

So I guess that so far is what I would like to see in this campaign..


Telegraph troops.
Set up the Red Army troops under player control...OR set them to only hold and never attack EVER!  Well maybe once the tanks arrive.
1 more field engineer platoon.
Set cz infantry to regular NOT shelled experience! 

The Germans are missing a lot of there halftracks.  Units that SHOULD have them seem to be missing?  I noticed this too in another campaign.  Some units are missing their wheels. 

[Dane49]

I like the map too.
But hardly any of the fighting during the Sokolovo campaign takes place on the lower half of the map.

I use the map quite a bit for QBs and Pershotravnevoye is one of my favorite villages to fight over,but the surrounding forest is a little to dense and really lowers the FPS during my battles and some of these areas of the map are completely barren like a snow desert or so dense that I completely avoid these areas and end up fighting over the "same old,same old" grid squares.

I think it could use an upgrade like some of the other maps and campaigns,and could use a German campaign mission also.A little TLC could turn a good map into a great map.

[Flashburn]

Well my super awesome defense did not quite work 100 percent..  Ok it work 50 percent.  But experience level 20 makes all the infantry and at rifle guy next to useless.  How the hell can this be right?  Going to loose the town for sure.  Lost most of my at guns.  Well I do still have my zis 3 ....for now.  But 4 more turns till the tanks show..  This town simply can not be held with what you get..  At least with ai controlling the 2 other zis 3 ...well 1 now as the ai rambo with one of them. Best bet Now for me is to pop smoke and head north.  But most of my dumb head units will not make it. 

But Dane you are right about the polygon....  its pretty good and does deserve something more than this campaign.  I do NOT remember this being this impossible when I 1st tried this a couple years back..  granted I did not get far ..  but this OMG how is this right?   

[Dane49]

If it's any consolation the Czech's  lost the town also.

There is a movie on Youtube about this battle showing the Czechs putting up a heroic defense as the Germans bum rush the town burning everything in their path with flame throwing APCs.

I've read accounts of the battle where the Czechs didn't really do that well and the battle was far from heroic.

[Flashburn]

If it's any consolation the Czech's  lost the town also.

There is a movie on Youtube about this battle showing the Czechs putting up a heroic defense as the Germans bum rush the town burning everything in their path with flame throwing APCs.

I've read accounts of the battle where the Czechs didn't really do that well and the battle was far from heroic.

Ya, that explains the experience set to 20 then.  Makes doing anything tuff.

[Dane49]

The German Army Panzer units in the area 6th and 11th weren't faring all that well either.
They had taken a lot of punishment before and during the battles South of Kharkov and were close to being considered combat ineffective.

They were suppose to sweep around the south edge of Kharkov and link up with the SS units surrounding the city from the north but they ran out of steam and the Germans rushed a fresh infantry division up to take their place in the line and sent the Pz divs to the Vadolga area to rest and refit,but Von Manstein  countered the order and told them to continue the attack and effect a link up with the 3rd SS.

The 2 Pz divs. weren't up to the task and acted too slow and sluggish and the SS decided to take the city of Kharkov by assault before the Russian units in the city had a chance to escape.
Most escaped anyways and the SS ended up taking heavy casualties  from the Soviet units who were still left in the city as they covered the main forces retreat.