Remember Longstop? Tunisia 42-43?

[Flashburn]

I am seriously considering starting a Kickstarter to complete this project.  Still in VARY early stages of planning. 

The basic idea is to fund the stuff that needs to get done.  I can not really comment on the PLAN.. .as no point at this time.  But Graviteam in interested.  So something like I fund via kickstarter and they complete. 

Why I am posting this is to gauge interest in the FINAL product and if anyone would ACTUALLY throw down money early.  Something like 10 or 15 bucks would be a digital copy on release.  With kickstarter you HAVE to have gimmicks so... they will be there BUT I promise nothing over the top awful.  Also may end being a small stand alone game/expansion....totally self contained.  Funding DLC's via kickstarter is frowned upon. 

But this is SO niche the only way this can really happen is with micro group funding.  Which means a lot of word of mouth and support for the idea and YES to pretty much either donate a couple bucks OR buy the thing sight unseen a few months early.

But I want to pass by the core fan base here ON Graviteams forum.  Right now I have NOTHING prepared for anything official.  Just some old screens of what would form the basis for the polygon....map.  Also to have ANY chance of success of kickstarter need a TON of word of mouth.  But need little money to more or less complete what I started out to do...   

Things that would need to be done to complete this project...

Complete the polygon..  There have been 9 months of improvements to how they are made.  Needs to get updated.  New flora and buildings made.  At minimum either the US or UK soldiers made.  It is up in the air as to which.  A few new vehicles. Germans to look the part NOT eastern front! AT minimum..   If more money can get raised MORE gets done of course.  But it is a niche thing in a niche market.

Graviteam seems to be attempting to fund mius with DLC's sales.  This COULD be a bit bigger than that and maybe spawn an off shoot.  I personally expect IF this happens that maybe I make enough money for a cup of coffee and a donut. 

old consider PRE-ALPHA screens.

 











PLEASE leave input.  IF this is a pipe dream go nowhere thing...we need to figure that out now.  Hopefully in the coming week/s I can do some out reach and PR crap.  But that is not really my thing.  I am just a VET with a crazy idea about expanding this series out to the Western Front. 

[Flashburn]

Some history links....  There where 2 battles on this hill.  Within about 20 square KM of here was a TOTAL hotbed of fighting between DEC42 and April 43.


Final fight in April on the hill
http://northirishhorse.net/articles/25.html

General over view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisia_Campaign

http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/tunisia/tunisia.htm



Concerns I have are simply the number of DLC's getting popped out.  It is GREAT for us hard core fans...but overall I wonder if it is hurting GTOS.  Also with this I think the patch issues and common complaints need to GO AWAY.  As potential money man and for legalize this may have to be as hire graviteam to finish.  This is all unclear.  The legal and ethical things to do.  I am NOT sticking my name on a turd. 

[Flanker15]

Yeah I'd pay for something like this.

[Flashburn]

While I think you are right....  And if I decide to go forward with this the kickstarter will tell the tale.  EI...if you do not make goal any moneys are credited back to the donor. 

[chashka17]

I would be interested in this as DLC.
My vote would be for GB units as I think there is a need for decent British WW2 unit simulation.  If the Churchill tank could be brought to life it would bring a welcome change.

I think it would have to be compatible with Mius (GT has said the current DLC will be Mius engine compatible IIRC) & I think that strategy would help with future iterations of Western European conflict simulations.

I think in general the DLC is a useful way of maintaining interest & proving the existing game is more than a match for any of the new toys available.  I don't have any reservations about current DLC given that it should run in later game engine versions. 
Generally I like the GT dev model (yes there are issues - e.g. I would love to see MD5s & filesizes on all downloads so I could check file status - a built in pre-install CRC check would be perfect).  Unlike many games where you buy a collection & then find it is useless when the new game version arrives, GT seems to be showing that an old favorite can get a makeover & continue to have value years down the line.  Taking ToW as an example there is still a fan mod being worked on to port the ToW1 campaigns to ToW3, (shame the ToW devs couldn't have supported that).  GT seem to have taken a grip of 'pre-installed software obsolescence' & addressed it with their upgrading patches. 
Longevity of gaming value could conversely kill sales without DLC.  The policy of significant upgrades in free patches ought to generate funds somewhere.  Fresh campaigns allow users to continue to have fun without forking out for a whole new game.  New units & textures bring new life. 


I'm curious as to the $amount projected for producing such a product as Longstop.  Perhaps a donation system could be set up to bring in funds as alternative to/in tandem with 'kickstart' - ie without the inherent corporate crowd pleasing.  Word of mouth could then generate actual funds instead of only increasing the possibility of being 'noticed'. 

Depends how many of us are serious & have spare cash I guess...  Maybe a poll thread on the forums (here, simhq etc) would be a useful indicator?

[Flashburn]

Getting there.  Right now JUST preplanning phase.  BTW Churchill tank would be CHOICE.  I have to look up WHICH versions where in Tunisia in time frame.  Well what I mean to say....is if any of the 6 pounder versions where there IN THIS time frame.     

To complete as polygon and 1 basic side about the cost of a cheap new car.  Not even factoring in paying myself.  Like I said make enough for coffee and donut.  Or a scone and a tea.  Whatever.  There are OTHER issues as well.  But one thing at a time.  Also unclear how much time this would take away from mius.  I have a feeling NOT much. 

But I DO think flat donations or things like that would not raise enough.  2000 people pre buying the thing at 10 or 15 dollars sight unseen would do nicely.  And if enough cash could  appear... at the really nice car range.  MUCH bigger game could get funded. 

There are LOTS of details here and there.  Main thing is it is SO niche.  No PR budget.  Strange distribution issues.  Nearly 100 percent word of mouth. 


With Such a huge amount of wargamers coming from the UK and its old common wealth and US...  Well DAMNIT I would like to do both.  But not the starting in crusty old Libya area.     Yes my US guy bais here.  NONONO ww2 started in Europe during operation torch! Runs away and hides.

[chashka17]

Seems a poll thread would be a help, you would have some numbers that could be indicative of the reception. 

2000 people globally is a tiny percentage of the wargaming market, so niche or not it should be do-able.
Battlefront seem to be selling GB & commonwealth packages to US customers - so again it should work in both US & other allied forces guises.

Interesting that the cost would be that kind of figure.  The only possible $upside to that would be the ability to deploy the models/units in other campaigns, making it theoretically cheaper if multiple DLCs are created.

Looks like you could be modeling the whole Western theater.  El Alamein on the Mius engine.... sounds quite tempting.   

[andrey12345]

2000 people globally is a tiny percentage of the wargaming market, so niche or not it should be do-able.

Spherical in vacuum, yes . And here is the same people but giving 10$ to hardcore niche project, is another matter.

[andrey12345]

So what about "Longstop" on KickStarter?

2 goals
1) basic - april 1943, British vs Germans. Mid size polygon with cacti and grass, 2 ops. What's cooler Experienced Brits with Churchill tanks or 2nd line Germans with Pak36(r) and Pzb41s in each squad.

2) advanced - basic + late 1942, US vs Germans. Huge polygon (or 2 mid parts) with mounts, 4 ops. US troops, US med tanks vs Flak 36

Anyone interested in this form?

[Dane49]

That sounds good to me.
If the initial British version does well then I think it would be safe to say the American expansion would do well also.

[chashka17]

2000 people globally is a tiny percentage of the wargaming market, so niche or not it should be do-able.

Spherical in vacuum, yes . And here is the same people but giving 10$ to hardcore niche project, is another matter.

Yes hence italics on should  !!!
Maybe an ad campaign giving something extra to early donors might help - get a soldier with your name in-game; get an extra model of a unique vehicle or something.  Something novel to stimulate interest.
I do realize, even globally. 2000 can be tough. 

[chashka17]

So what about "Longstop" on KickStarter?

2 goals
1) basic - april 1943, British vs Germans. Mid size polygon with cacti and grass, 2 ops. What's cooler Experienced Brits with Churchill tanks or 2nd line Germans with Pak36(r) and Pzb41s in each squad.

2) advanced - basic + late 1942, US vs Germans. Huge polygon (or 2 mid parts) with mounts, 4 ops. US troops, US med tanks vs Flak 36

Anyone interested in this form?

Yep sounds like fun to me. 

[Flanker15]

At best the kickstarter will over fund Longstop and at worst it won't fund but some more people will know about Graviteam Tactics and might buy it.
Just remember to set the goal at the bare minimum, this is so niche it'll be pressed to get any funding.
Graviteam might be able to help by offering a reward like a copy of OpStar with a certain pledge and a Opstar+DLC for a higher pledge.

Also Longstop going to be standalone right not a DLC for Opstar right?  It'd be cool if it could plug into Opstar aswell to add the stuff to that game too.

[andrey12345]

At best the kickstarter will over fund Longstop and at worst it won't fund but some more people will know about Graviteam Tactics and might buy it.

Rely on KS in the promotion and advertising not have a sence. This is not the platform for PR. Magazines, sites socials is much more better.

Just remember to set the goal at the bare minimum, this is so niche it'll be pressed to get any funding.

Its not possible due to taxing, banking and other intermediaries. All this increases the cost and therefore sets the goals almost a twice as needed.

Also Longstop going to be standalone right not a DLC for Opstar right?  It'd be cool if it could plug into Opstar aswell to add the stuff to that game too.

Its not a good solution at all -> two absolutely identical games with own patches its bad thing.

[Flashburn]

At best the kickstarter will over fund Longstop and at worst it won't fund but some more people will know about Graviteam Tactics and might buy it.

Rely on KS in the promotion and advertising not have a sence. This is not the platform for PR. Magazines, sites socials is much more better.

Just remember to set the goal at the bare minimum, this is so niche it'll be pressed to get any funding.

Its not possible due to taxing, banking and other intermediaries. All this increases the cost and therefore sets the goals almost a twice as needed.

Also Longstop going to be standalone right not a DLC for Opstar right?  It'd be cool if it could plug into Opstar aswell to add the stuff to that game too.

Its not a good solution at all -> two absolutely identical games with own patches its bad thing.

Only reason for that was kickstarter policy towards funding DLC. 

[lavish]

Flashburn, still remember Longstop? How is this one going? I'd love to see this game in Africa. There's something interesting, gritty and cruel in those more or less deserted landscapes. Especially with wwII mechanized warfare.

[Flashburn]

I think it is sleeping right now.  Not dead....not alive.