How to defend against Tanks!!!

[Tanker]

@lavish:

I believe entrenched infantry is too vulnerable in game presently.  I just slaughtered a platoon of infantry with 37mm and mg fire from German half tracks.  I would expect that result in open country, not when the infantry is covered.  Solution: make entrenchments provide more protection.  A more realistic result would be that artillery and mortars would be used to soften and perhaps kill some of the entrenched infantry.  Then the half track weapons would support an infantry attack, by suppressing the entrenched enemy.   It is unrealistic that I should be able to destroy entrenched infantry with half track, or even tank fire alone.

So what if one man pokes his head up above the foxhole to check where the tank is?  Do you really think the gunner could react quickly enough to shoot him?  Of course not.  I'd like to see a more realistic behavior for the infantry.  If the ai calculates that it has very little chance to effectively attack the tank then stay very hidden.  Don't stand up in the fox hole and fire your rifle at a tank to attract it's attention. 

If field entrenchments really provided the cover that they should, then tanks and half tracks would be reduced to wasting ammunition firing at positions they could not see very well and were unsure even held enemy soldiers with very little chance of doing much damage.

Artillery airbursts (especially tree bursts) would get infantry in foxholes without top cover but not direct fire so much.  That was learned in WWI.

[Tanker]

Here is a Russian documentary about the KV heavy tank in 41 and 42.  Time 05:40 describes how the only weapon to stop it was the 88mm aa gun and attacking a stopped tank with grenades and buckets of gasoline.

[FB_AGA]

Here is a Russian documentary about the KV heavy tank in 41 and 42.  Time 05:40 describes how the only weapon to stop it was the 88mm aa gun and attacking a stopped tank with grenades and buckets of gasoline.

About 88 yes but about grenades he few times says "by German documents", In Fritz's attached pictures such sources even advised to use axes.

Moreover, alone KV approaches enemy positions at night and attack at down, what a surprise

[Tanker]

Here is a Russian documentary about the KV heavy tank in 41 and 42.  Time 05:40 describes how the only weapon to stop it was the 88mm aa gun and attacking a stopped tank with grenades and buckets of gasoline.

About 88 yes but about grenades he few times says "by German documents", In Fritz's attached pictures such sources even advised to use axes.

Moreover, alone KV approaches enemy positions at night and attack at down, what a surprise

Ah, very good.  You caught some things I didn't because I could not understand the language.

[andrey12345]

Modern AT guys

[Dane49]

I had about the same thing happen in a quick battle last night when 1 of my Pz 1F tanks assaulted an entrenched NKVD squad.

[Flashburn]

That military/law enforcement needs retraining badly.  Sleeping in your AFV or whatever ding bats where doing certainly did not go well.  AS to riot cops... Ya.......why no side arms with real bullets?  Some dumb politician probably ordered them out with no weapons to prevent dumb shootings.  Instead you have the law guys running away from guys in sheets on video.. Ya much better. 

Whatever.. that part of the world is crazy. The governments are nuts and these other guys are nuts too.  Maybe they should try a softer approach to governmental change instead of trying to set people on fire?  Although its clear in the last bit they where trying to be martyrs  for the cause.  Whatever that is.  i don't care.  That approach to change is a dead end.   

[Tanker]

Almost seemed like that first one with the single vehicle in the square was staged.

[Flashburn]

1st parts where certainly filmed later.  Likely that vehicle and crew where known to nap in that spot over a period of time.  They found a vehicle and crew screwing off and knew they had a chance.  Mark of non professional soldier/cop dudes.

[lavish]

Modern AT guys

haahhaha, flaming mob surprise.

p.s. Interesting to notice, how many bottles miss. And this vehicle is standing still and not shooting back.

[Flashburn]

Modern AT guys

haahhaha, flaming mob surprise.

p.s. Interesting to notice, how many bottles miss. And this vehicle is standing still and not shooting back.

They are into foot ball no baseball.  And i mean what everyone calls football not US football. 

[lavish]

So what if one man pokes his head up above the foxhole to check where the tank is?  Do you really think the gunner could react quickly enough to shoot him? 

IMO this is good point. If the gunner doesn't know where that guy is, he cannot react fast enough. But if he do know, he may. Also we must remember that infantry guy doesn't necessarily know that someone is aiming at him, so he may look out of trench. But if you don't allow him to look out of trench, he cannot see anything.

Maybe the solution for infantry would be to make faster peeks under certain circumstance to avoid getting hit. But how should we define these circumstances? Also, infantry should be able to adjust their posture better to maximize cover, but this requires more animations and may already have been taken into account indirectly by adjusting accuracy of fire.

p.s To solve the problem, we need to define it in a physical/mathematical sense. Then we can make a solution that can be descriped in the same way. We don't have to do it 100% quantitatively, but closer, the better. The developers can take care of the rest then with their game engine.

[Flashburn]

When set to ambush they mainly keep there heads down.  However.... they are nearly blind this way.  I have had enemy infantry in the open walk by and go unnoticed when my guys where set to ambush.  But all depends on angle and cover. 

[Tanker]

Can't you set the spotting abilities of buttoned and unbuttoned tank crews?
Percentage of spotting against covered infantry set to very low for buttoned crew looking forward, very low to zero for sides and zero for rear.

Have appropriately higher percentages for unbuttoned crew (in particularly the tank commander).

All adjusted for range of course.

[andrey12345]

Percentage of spotting against covered infantry set to very low for buttoned crew looking forward, very low to zero for sides and zero for rear.

Its vary from sights position and orientation.
If commander rotate/switch (for some Russian scopes) FOV for commander sight he can see to the rear like as to the front.

After some time (may be long ) I will show a video / screenshots how it works in APOS/GTOS, as an example of the standard imaging feature for GTMF.