Ammo

[topnik]

Is it just me or is the amount of ammo in the game too low? I used to play mostly quick battles and didn't care much about conserving the ammo, but now that i'm playing campaigns it became a huge issue. Usualy in the middle of campaign most of my troops are out. Little supplies that come is not enough. And the fact that I'm playing 2 hours battle isn't helping either  . But it takes much less than 2 hours to fire off all rounds. I just had an intense battle in which a fresh and fully equipped platoon run out of ammo half an hour into the battle. Fortunately it was the last turn.

How do you manage the ammo? Any advice is welcome 

Will the Mius front address the issue? Like more abundant supplies and perhaps a small ammo reserve at each HQ, size depending on the level?

[Flashburn]

IMO infantry carry to little for rifles and SMG's.  MG's seem good. 

Tanks and afv's, guns, mortars are aok.  But ordering tanks and guns to not shoot infantry can get them to conserve ammo.  Turn on or off as needed.  Keep an eye on your supply troops.  Units you do not want to have draw ammo lock em. 

[topnik]

IMO infantry carry to little for rifles and SMG's.  MG's seem good. 

Tanks and afv's, guns, mortars are aok. 

I agree ,except maybe for mortars, for which I'd like to have more ammo.

Let's take a look at the infantry. If I understand the image below correctly, a squad has 5 Mosin rifles, for which it has 118 five-round clips (of two types of ammo). That's total of 590 rounds per squad, 118 per soldier. Since I've read somewhere that the German soldier carried around 60 round, that doesn't seem bad at all. That is if I correctly interpret the stats. I don't know how much rounds did the Soviet soldier carry.




But I find the supplies on the operational level insufficient. IMO there should be more supply platoons, carrying more ammo.

BTW, do soldiers pick up ammo from the dead and wounded?

But ordering tanks and guns to not shoot infantry can get them to conserve ammo.  Turn on or off as needed.  Keep an eye on your supply troops.  Units you do not want to have draw ammo lock em. 

Some good advices here!

[andrey12345]

Will the Mius front address the issue?

What do you mean "issue"?
Its one of the main features in game.
You can shot everything in one battle and then sit empty, or can be more rational.
QB is ideal not realistic case.

Do not try to kill everyone. More reasonable to take territory without intense firefight. Maneuver is the same thing as shooting.

[Dane49]

If your infantry are short of ammo, I find it best to set them to ambush and give them very short covered arcs so as not to waste a bunch of ammo firing up the countryside at over 100+ meters.

[topnik]

Will the Mius front address the issue?

What do you mean "issue"?
Its one of the main features in game.

I understand that. I certainly wouldn't want an unlimited ammo arcade game. 
But still I feel a little more ammo wouldn't hurt.

Why not adding an option to reduce rate of fire? Something like fire short bursts, fire only when sure to hit the target? And for guns and mortars, set the number of shells when firing at area, like when using the off-map artillery.

If your infantry are short of ammo, I find it best to set them to ambush and give them very short covered arcs so as not to waste a bunch of ammo firing up the countryside at over 100+ meters.

Another good advice. Keep them coming!

[Dane49]

And for guns and mortars, set the number of shells when firing at area, like when using the off-map artillery

Make sure your guns and mortars are under your control not AIs(Uncheck AI control box).
This way they will only fire when you order them to, unless they have a direct line of sight(then they fire anyways).

Short covered arc for guns and a decent reverse slope for indirect weapons will help conserve ammo.

[topnik]

Make sure your guns and mortars are under your control not AIs(Uncheck AI control box).
This way they will only fire when you order them to, unless they have a direct line of sight(then they fire anyways).

I usualy do uncheck AI control, even though I realy like the automatic fire support feature, especialy for mortars. I assign all the mortars into a group, and switch AI control on/off, depending on situation.

Short covered arc for guns and a decent reverse slope for indirect weapons will help conserve ammo.

Indeed. Not to mention it will also save their lives. 

[Flashburn]

600 rounds of rifle ammo for an infantry squad seems crazy low to me.  Army's usually specify a "basic" load of a ammo.  It is the BASIC load that should never be less than.  If your going into a fight and know it.  You draw more ammo.  That is my only beef with that.  One infantry squad in GTOS can expend 80 percent of their ammo in under 5 minutes.  Which is legit.  The issue I see is that in game they cannot go and get more.  If your sitting in defense dug in I would think you would find away to get ALOT more ammo.  If your on the attack I would expect a bunch more ammo on half tracks, with a truck somewhere slightly to the rear, or lashed to the sides of tank if directly supporting armor.  So hmmm I still think there is not enough ammo for smg's and rifles.  But is small thing really. 

And in some operations slightly more ammo would be welcome.  I am not saying ammo falling from trees.  But when your playing a historical campaign where one side wiped the floor with the other and you have to stop attacking because like all your guys are out of ammo.  This is an important part of military maneuvers..YES absolutely.  But if you can not get historical outcome because you are out of ammo, not so good.  And heaven help you if you forget to lock out a unit that has a high ammo resupply and it ends up taking all the ammo you intended for infantry squads that are out of ammo. 

[Flanker15]

Can infantry automatically take ammo from dead soldiers nearby or transports?

[Dane49]

I've never noticed any way to do this.
I think this idea(option) should be explored further.

Right now it seems the only way to get resupplied is from the Batt. supply platoon or a redistribution from what is already on hand.

It seems that if you become a casualty your ammo is not recoverable.

[Schuck]

It would be good if while in game you could request an ammo resupply, and then a halftrack or truck would drive over to you.
Obviously the further away they are, the longer it would take.
And if they are "off map" maybe your supply trucks could drive on to the map to resupply?
As it is at the moment the supply trucks just sit there and don't do much of anything!

[Flashburn]

It would be good if while in game you could request an ammo resupply, and then a halftrack or truck would drive over to you.
Obviously the further away they are, the longer it would take.
And if they are "off map" maybe your supply trucks could drive on to the map to resupply?
As it is at the moment the supply trucks just sit there and don't do much of anything!

IF the maps where larger this would make sense.  As 3 x 3 km is the largest you would almost never drive ammo up to the front lines.  You would have the combat guys come to you.  Well, they would likely dispatch a vehicle or 2 and run the blammo out.  But if it was an automatic thing they would likely all get killed in clear weather.  Think German telephone troops mounted on half-tracks.  They never last long. Well the halftrack...

[FB_AGA]

It would be good if while in game you could request an ammo resupply, and then a halftrack or truck would drive over to you.
Obviously the further away they are, the longer it would take.
And if they are "off map" maybe your supply trucks could drive on to the map to resupply?
As it is at the moment the supply trucks just sit there and don't do much of anything!

IF the maps where larger this would make sense.  As 3 x 3 km is the largest you would almost never drive ammo up to the front lines.  You would have the combat guys come to you.  Well, they would likely dispatch a vehicle or 2 and run the blammo out.  But if it was an automatic thing they would likely all get killed in clear weather.  Think German telephone troops mounted on half-tracks.  They never last long. Well the halftrack...

Well, a company tross (horse wagon) with ~ 7-8K of 7.92 bullets should be about 800 m. away from forward positions. And combat troops supposed to run themselves to ammo wagon.

[Flashburn]

It would be good if while in game you could request an ammo resupply, and then a halftrack or truck would drive over to you.
Obviously the further away they are, the longer it would take.
And if they are "off map" maybe your supply trucks could drive on to the map to resupply?
As it is at the moment the supply trucks just sit there and don't do much of anything!

IF the maps where larger this would make sense.  As 3 x 3 km is the largest you would almost never drive ammo up to the front lines.  You would have the combat guys come to you.  Well, they would likely dispatch a vehicle or 2 and run the blammo out.  But if it was an automatic thing they would likely all get killed in clear weather.  Think German telephone troops mounted on half-tracks.  They never last long. Well the halftrack...

Well, a company tross (horse wagon) with ~ 7-8K of 7.92 bullets should be about 800 m. away from forward positions. And combat troops supposed to run themselves to ammo wagon.

You mean for a German infantry unit?  I know most US infantry units during the war might round up a few jeeps to make an ammo run.  Drive the ammo right up to the units command post or what passed for a command post.  What did the Red Army do usually?

Well also the US infantry if like mountain troops would use mules to haul this stuff around if the area was not passable to vehicles.  I must say I like the idea of animal transport...  Horses and mules go to war for the last time in a BIG way. 

[Schuck]

Well im not sure what the Russians used,
but the Brits and probably the Russians through lend lease used the Bren Carrier to make ammo runs to dug in front line troops,
And the Germans used Kettenkrads and motorcycles with sidecars.
And the main mode would have been, as stated, the mule, or your own legs!
To be honest any kind of re-supply would be nice.

[FB_AGA]

You mean for a German infantry unit?  I know most US infantry units during the war might round up a few jeeps to make an ammo run.  Drive the ammo right up to the units command post or what passed for a command post.  What did the Red Army do usually?

Well also the US infantry if like mountain troops would use mules to haul this stuff around if the area was not passable to vehicles.  I must say I like the idea of animal transport...  Horses and mules go to war for the last time in a BIG way. 

Both German and Soviet infantry divisions used mainly different horse carts and wagons to carry supply. In motorized and tank troops different trucks. In both armys usually a company depot was about 200 - 500m from forward positions, battalion/regimental about 1-2 km. It is in case of a constant front line. Also, like you've said in US army, mules or packhorses (without vagons and etc.) in mountain troops.

In general in supply issues Red Army and German Army were very close, well, maybe germans had a cart in a platoon while ordinary soviet line soldier had to carry all his ammo on his back.

About lend lease jeeps right, they were very popular in the Red army; however, not in the role of supply. Mainly they were used to carry officers, 45 AT guns or in scout role like motorcycles with sidecars.

Universal Carriers were very rare in the Red army and all of them by TO&E were in scout troops.

At the same time near the front line light tanks like T-60 were widely used to carry ammo for KV and T-34, e.g. in Sinyavino swamps even horses sometimes couldn't move, only tracked vehicles.

[Flashburn]

Well in the US Army during the war the jeep was not a really a supply vehicle.  BUT there would always be a bunch of them ....everywhere.  So a company could easily find some to do whatever needed doing.  But ammo runs under fire by jeeps seems to be pretty common.  Its the perfect little thing for this.  Throw 4000 rounds of small arms and the back......zip off.  If it had a trailer bigger stuff.  Who cares if its the CO's jeep.  =)

[FB_AGA]

The thing that in the Red army there were no so many jeeps    I can't say anything about 44 - 45. But, for instance short info about real situation in the 46 Army, which was fighting around Taranovka in the august-september 43:

On the average in tank regiments 1 - 2 cars   (not only jeeps ) and 31 -56 trucks and 2 -10 special trucks (ambulances, radio, workshops and etc.)

At the same time in Infantry divisions (the hole division of that time was about 5000 men): 3-7 cars, 76 - 108 trucks; 4 - 69 special trucks; while there were 443 - 744 only train horses and around 200 both saddle and artillery horses. 

So, jeeps it is not about the Red army in 1941 - 1943 

[Dane49]

Maybe each company HQ platoon could have a small light ammo point to draw from.