bb_round parameter and reloading speed discussion

[Mistwalker]

As to the new SPM update. I've planned to change bb_round parameter for armored vehicles from 5 to 10 as in "Kharkov 1943" - that  improves AI driving capabilities (tanks almost do not bump in each other and better drive around the obstacles). But there are some complaints that if there's deep and narrow water obstacle in the mission, vehicles sometimes get drown when driving near it.

So to the question: is there anyone who changed bb_round parameter and played with it? What's better - to change it to 10 or to leave it at 5?

As to the reloading speed (from archive documents):

In 1941-42 in Russia was created special course to check real combat rate of fire of some tanks. 5 targets were placed into the course (from "machinegun" to "tank" at 400-600 m distance. Tested tank had to locate and destroy all those targets.
Here's the results in 1943:
Pz III - 5-9 shots/min
Pz IV - 4-7 shots/min
T-34 - 3-6 shots/min
KV-1 - 6 shots/min

results in 1944:
Tiger II - 4-5 shots/min (mainly because slow turret traverse speed - depends on engine RPM)
T-34-85 - in place 7-8 shots/min, combat imitation - 4-6 shots/min

Another piece of info from armor book about IS-2 development:

Combat rate of fire for IS-2 - 1,5-2 shots/min - gun with piston breechblock, 2-3 shots/min - gun with wedge-type breechblock and unexperienced crew, 3-3,5 shots/min and experienced crew. 4-6 shots/min in place, and experienced crew.
Note: gun with wedge-type breechblock was developed in March 1943. There were only about 200 early IS-2 without it.

One more piece of info from armor book about Tiger I:
According to english tests reloading speed in place for Tiger I is 6.5 seconds.

So I decided to change in SPM update some reloading speeds according to the info above:

For all 76mm tank guns return reloading speed to old value 10.5 seconds.
For Tiger I change from 9 to 8 seconds.
For T-34-85 change from 8 to 9 seconds.
For IS-2 change from 25 to 21 seconds.

[frinik]

  Hi Mistwalker!I tinkered with the Bb round for all the tanks and after moving it to 10 following an exchange of posts on the subject I decided to go with Hemisent's suggestion to set it at 8 because setting it at 10 can increase the risks of the tanks driving into lakes and rivers( I think it's Kyth who mentioned that?).Does it make a big difference?Yes and no but it does improve a little the meandering of the tanks.

Re the reload rates I have come to the same conclusions you came to and changed my own reload rates about 9 months ago.Faster for the Tiger slower for the T34/76 (as the commander acted as the loader as well).The reload rate for the JS2 is too fast in the game but I understand why it is so; to make that tank playable.

My own values: 7 secs for the Panther,8 for the Tiger I and 9 for the Tiger II/Jagdpanther and Elefant.Alll other German tanks deserve 6 or 7 except for the Brummbaer.

For the Sov tanks I have left them as they are except for the T34/76.

[lockie]

I think bb_round should be change for the bigger value, but not to all to the value "10".
I've already changed reloading time for IS-2 to "20" sec

[hemisent]

I've been playing with the bb_round values at 8 and it's much easier gameplay. tanks still come very close but don't really smash into each other anywhere near what they were before.

[Kyth]

As to the new SPM update. I've planned to change bb_round parameter for armored vehicles from 5 to 10 as in "Kharkov 1943" - that  improves AI driving capabilities (tanks almost do not bump in each other and better drive around the obstacles). But there are some complaints that if there's deep and narrow water obstacle in the mission, vehicles sometimes get drown when driving near it.

So to the question: is there anyone who changed bb_round parameter and played with it? What's better - to change it to 10 or to leave it at 5?

I've tried the bb_round setting at 10.0 without a problem. Map M09_Zavodi, testing the AI for my Mission 8 (Quietly Flows the Blub) which has several river crossings. There seems to be less bumping / pathfinding problems but I can't really tell for sure,

Which map has the deep / narrow water obstacles?

[frinik]

 The Petrovka w07 map has lots of rivers and creek.I tried bb rounds of 10 and 12 of my 36 tanks drowned despite the fact that I traced a path for them indicating where to ford the streams....!!!! With bb 9.0; only 4 did.Again it may be fluke as the AI does not always behave consistently.

[Kyth]

For comparison, did you set the formation to nil?

[lockie]

Which map has the deep / narrow water obstacles?

My mission "Jagdpanther over the top" created on polygon w04_kr_dolina. Almost all my spgs drowns every time at bb_round=10.

[Kyth]

Which map has the deep / narrow water obstacles?

My mission "Jagdpanther over the top" created on polygon w04_kr_dolina. Almost all my spgs drowns every time at bb_round=10.

What formation were they in?

[lockie]

What formation were they in?

SPG's don't have formation. There're 5(depends on balance) separate ones.

[frinik]

AS for me I have tried all combos; freely, line and column and it makes no great difference as some tanks bump into each other some go straight for right path then at the last minute turn around and go straight for the deep waters.....

[Iceman]

bb_round - this value defines the size of technics in meters for check of crossing (tracing).
If you put value = 10, the tanks are thinking that they are much larger in size and can be drown.

[frinik]

 Iceman what can happen if we set the bb_round under 5?

[Iceman]

Iceman what can happen if we set the bb_round under 5?

The tanks are thinking that they are much larger in size.
For example, for tanks maximum passableness depth of water - 0,5-0,7 meters (depending on the size). If you tell the AI ​​that the tank is more than 2 times, then he will think that maximum passableness depth of water for him 1.0-1,4 meter. And the tank will go boldly into the depth of water which is fatal for him.

[natalia99a]

I hope this isn't too off topic, but I guess it's a type of reloading. What I'm referring to is the rate infantry can throw grenades, Is it possible to slow them down a bit?
I've only held a grenade but never tried throwing one, I assume the process would include detaching it from the belt, pulling pin, getting ready to throw while aiming and finally chucking it.
The guys that pepper me resemble a pitching machine and they never seem to miss. 

[Kyth]

I hope this isn't too off topic, but I guess it's a type of reloading. What I'm referring to is the rate infantry can throw grenades, Is it possible to slow them down a bit?
I've only held a grenade but never tried throwing one, I assume the process would include detaching it from the belt, pulling pin, getting ready to throw while aiming and finally chucking it.
The guys that pepper me resemble a pitching machine and they never seem to miss. 

And they're extremely effective too, like they're lobbing satchel charges 

[frinik]

Tell me about it!Yesterday as I was aiming at a JS-2 a single Sov infantryman managed to disable to gun of my Tiger II with a single grenade.Then the JS-2 made minced meat out of me.This is what I call perfect armour-infantry co-ordination.Textbook in fact

[whukid]

Tell me about it!Yesterday as I was aiming at a JS-2 a single Sov infantryman managed to disable to gun of my Tiger II with a single grenade.Then the JS-2 made minced meat out of me.This is what I call perfect armour-infantry co-ordination.Textbook in fact

hehe. Or just bad luck :p I prefer to sit back as more of a sniper with the Tiger 2. It doesn't seem to do so well against the enemy at close range

[natalia99a]

The rpg40 grenade needs to be turned way down have a look  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-40

[frinik]

  So do I whukid but this Sov infantryman came out of nowhere!!!He took me by surprise and before I had time to cut him down he threw his grenade and boom no gun!!! I was so focussed on burning JS-2s ( I destroyed 9 in 6 minutes) I didn't see him until it was too late....

I looked through various files to see whther the grenade throwing can be somewhat reduced but no luck  so far.I'll keep searching.May be in the common res file....